Number 6

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Posts by Number 6

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  15

  Some choice memories of my parents

  by kat7302 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  "i will step over your dead body at armageddon".

  when i was at their house with my children and a jw called and commented on the background noise..."ive got some friends here".

  not daughter/grandchildren but friends!.

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  Number 6

  Ah indeed, the fond words of loving parents to sooth the troubled brow. The gentlest touch at the right moment to ease the pain.

  NOT!!!

  Kat, with respect why do you put up with this crap. My parents many years ago now just after I left the Borg tried it on with all these kind of sayings. My response?

  "If you talk to me in that manner ever again, I will walk out of that door (in their house) and you will never see me or your Grandchildren again. If you make the mistake of daring to speak to me in that manner in my own house, your feet will not touch the door on the way out and also you will never see me or your Grandchildren again. This is not a negotiable point! What's your reply?"

  They had enough common sense to realise they didn't want to lose contact with me or their grandchildren and the compromise was reached where they just don't refer to the Watchtower even in the most oblique manner. Which suits me fine.

  I have made it my lifes ambition to drag my parents out of the Borg even if they realise on the day of their death that they have wasted their entire life in it. To have them turn to me and say 'sorry' would be enough.

  But Kat, if your parents are as bad as you describe I would walk away and never look back.

  Sometimes you gotta bury family before they are dead.

  Sorry to be so blunt

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  109

  LET THE EVIDENCE BEGIN

  by QUANTUM in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  please refer to the following.

  http://farms.byu.edu/free/transcripts/index.html.

  begin with daniel peterson's evidences for the book of mormon.

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  Number 6

  I just love the way this guy states, and indeed any bare assertion from the Watchtower Society assumes that it is simply correct because they say so. As if the onus is on us to disprove something simply because they baldly assert something is true. Listen mate: just because you barefacedly say something is so don't make it so.

  The entire Mormon and JW superstructure is built on upside down pyramidal superstructure with the flimsiest of foundations. i.e In the case of the Mormons the whole Joseph Smith was a prophet/Book of Mormon/Golden Tablet thing and with the JW that they are 'the Faithful and Discreet Slave' from Matt 24:45. Once one accepts these foundations they then become suceptable to accepting anything the organisation says without question.

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  27

  Your Little Jehovah will Fail You

  by Amazing in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  your little jehovah will fail you .

  in honor of: dave haack .

  when i became associated with the jws in 1968, i was working at a machine manufacturing plant in california.

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  Number 6

  Hi Amazing,

  It's funny your fomer colleague should have put it that way because I used almost identical language to my mother (a diehard dub of 27 years) just the other week.

  She was lamenting, albeit in a roundabout way because I have very little tolerance for her attempts to witness to me, that it was 'so sad' that we were missing out on 'so much' by not being part of the nightmare that is belonging to the Watchtower Religion.

  I flipped and said "No Mum, it is YOU who is missing out on so much! Your Grandchildrens' christmas and Birthadays, all their school activites that your weird religion finds so offensive and every other facet of our lives that has become objectionable to you since we left the 'truth'. In fact every family occassion that is NORMAL to most people you and stepdad seem to want no part of simply because you are enslaved to that cult."

  "But" I said "what is sadder is that one day, maybe 10, 20 or if you live that long 30 years from now when your very old and at the end of your life, you will wake up and realise you have given your best years to a religion that means nothing, and worse you will have sacrificed just about every family relationship that most people hold dear as well as missing out on just about every family occassion you could have been part of, on the alter of a meaningless man made religion. Believe me, one day your religion will fail you and you are very lucky to have family there who will be forgiving enough to help you pick up the pieces. You've been banging on peoples doors since 1974 telling them the end is imminent. You were told myself and my brother would never finish Primary School much less Secondary then go out to get jobs. I'm now the father with 3 children, life has moved on and in 20 years i will very much look forward to being a Grandfather. But for now I am content just enjoying my kids growing up and denying them nothing."

  She looked totally shocked because I have never been so blunt with her. Whilst I was warming to my subject I further added: "At least I will know, that 50 or so years from now when I approach the end of my life, i will have given my kids EVERY opportunity that I am capable of and will look back with great joy and contentment on the very ordinary everyday things that is being a family. Something you very much have lost sight of. You say you live in constant hope we will return to 'the truth'. Never!!! I on the other hand hope you will wake up and smell what your in before I am organising your funeral."

  Needless to say that shut her up. She'll think twice before attempting to lecture me again. But I do totally agree with your former colleagues sentiments Amazing; Their 'Little Jehovah' constantly fails them, it's just whether they have the ability to eventually see it is the problem.

  Thanks for sharing

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  57

  Panorama TV programme UK

  by ns7 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is on sunday 14 july 2001 (sorry)2002 uk bbc1 .

  bbc 1 (01) 22:15 - 22:55 .

  panorama

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  Number 6

  Yet another shameless BTTT.
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  57

  Panorama TV programme UK

  by ns7 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is on sunday 14 july 2001 (sorry)2002 uk bbc1 .

  bbc 1 (01) 22:15 - 22:55 .

  panorama

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  Number 6

  Another thought occurs:

  The BBC has its news at 10pm (BST) every night except Saturday. But on a Sunday evening after the presenter does the opening one liners for the headlines like:

  President Bush said this...

  Tony Blair did that..

  Osama Bin Laden will do the other..

  They then say: "And immediately followng this bulletin at 10.15pm, Panorama, which tonight investigates......" This happens every Sunday night irrespective of the subject under discussion.

  So if we could try to get as many of our families, friends acquaintances and anyone else just to catch the BBC opening headlines at 10pm the potential for a bigger audience is there. So to all those in the UK: Phone (or email) a friend. I know its only one weeks notice but lets get this programme to as big an audience as possible. This programme has a much bigger element of surprise which dateline didn't have.

  6

  PS What channel/time will the dateline programme be aired here in the UK

  Edited by - Number 6 on 6 July 2002 10:53:7

  Edited by - Number 6 on 6 July 2002 11:3:28
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  57

  Panorama TV programme UK

  by ns7 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is on sunday 14 july 2001 (sorry)2002 uk bbc1 .

  bbc 1 (01) 22:15 - 22:55 .

  panorama

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  Number 6

  Video Recorder is set.

  This has been a long time coming. I don't think for a minute the upper echelons in Brooklyn could have imagined all this was going to come back to haunt them one day. They obviously think that being "Gods Organisation here on Earth" will protect them from whatever "bile and spew" us apostates throw at them. Sorry Guys. The games up. To many ex-jws know to much. All of us have a story to tell of pain and hurt whether it be shunning, abuse (emotional, physical or sexual) not to mention the years of guilt and fear we endured whilst part of it. But most importantly WE HAVE A FORUM TO AIR OUR VIEWS.

  The internet isn't going to go away. The simple law of supply and demand kicks in. The ignorant public can now find out what you are like with a simple click, drag and download, and your internal support is heomoraging.

  20 years from now your support will be a tenth of what it is now; a rabid, mentally unstable, dysfunctional group of hardcore individuals telling us our demise is "imminent". Thank god I got out when I was 21.

  For Panorama THE flagship BBC news and current affairs programme to air the entire programme about this in a peak Sunday eveing slot is a major coup. It could be a major blow from which the Watchtower will never fully recover here in the United Kingdom.

  My thanks to all who helped make it.

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  30

  would you take blood?

  by master chief in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  im confused would i take blood if i was about to die and had no other alternative treatment well to me thats allways been a hard one one to answer and people have allways hated witnesses for refusing it or not giving blood to there own kids.you see my mothers due in to hospital on tuesday and having a major operation the problem for her is she is inactive as a jw and has no blood card which is upto date what do you think she should do 1.phone elders 2.trust in jehovah and refuse blood.3if it comes to the worst take blood and live.

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  Number 6

  Without a seconds hesitation yes!!

  My wife was in serious trouble with the birth of our 2nd daughter in 1997, and being unconcious I as next of kin was asked to consent to a blood transfusion.

  "What the hell are you waiting for?" I nearly scream at them.

  "Well it says in her notes which are a bit out of date that she is a JW and we don't want any trouble." returns the consultant.

  To cut a long story short I had these inaccurate notes removed from her file and she was given the necessary 2 units of pure red to keep her alive. So if it hadn't been for a blood transfusion my wife and darling 4 yr old daughter wouldn't be here.

  After all this was over I sent a standard letter to any and all doctors surgeries/hospitals/clinics that we had ever been involved with asking them to remove all references to JW's and the blood issue that may be on file. This is a serious point. What if you were in a serious accident and the only family to give any consent were devout JW's and also your medical notes were very unclear?? Something to think about.

  Medically speaking the benefits of a blood transfusion may be debatable in any given case but when it's a life or death emergency I would not hesitate. In fact my previous life as a JW is a was the very last consideration.

  F**k the Watchtower. (Sorry; had a few tonight ;-))

  Regards

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  16

  I'm angry and scared

  by MoodyBlue in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've been out of the witnesses for a year...and in that span i've become more of a skeptic towards any sort of religion or god.

  i don't know if i will ever again have faith in a supernatural, all loving and powerful being.

  i suppose this is because the only god i really know anymore is jehovah of the watchtower- who to me is nothing more than a jealous, angry and vindictive creature.

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  Number 6

  Unfortunately the problem with coming from the Watchtower (particularly when raised in it) is that you equate a relationship with Christ and God with a visible human organisation.

  This is the view pertpetuated by the WTS to bolster their clearly flawed "Faithful and Discreet Slave" concept which basically gives the power of life and death over 6 million JW's to a dozen or so senile old fools in Brooklyn. It translates as we are God's organisation on earth therefore you must treat anything petty/foolish/irresponsible or otherwise clearly mad viewpoint as if the Almighty himself had told it to you. Getting this fed to you several times a week for 20 odd years really does f**k your mind so its no wonder you are reading the Bible with a skewed point of view.

  I would thoughrougly (sp?) recommend "In Search of Christian Freedom" by Raymond Franz. He documents with great detail how the "Faithful and Discreet Slave" dogma is nothing but self serving arrogance on the part of the Watchtower and has nothing to do with developing a relationship with God and Christ.

  I myself for many years equated divine beings with human organisations on the back of being brought up in the Watchtower but I now see that whether or not God or Christ exist (and my jury is still out on that one); it has bugger all do with what the Watchtower says.

  Hope that helps

  Regards

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  25

  df vs disassociation

  by freebird in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  can someone provide me some insight or past experience with the pros and cons to disassociating oneself versus getting disfellowshipped?

  besides the obvious of not having to deal with the lynch squad.

  thanks for you comments.

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  Number 6

  I suppose it also depends on your current status. I myself managed (somehow very easily) to fade away over a decade ago. If now they decided to come after me by way of a JC I would just not entertain them. Putting it bluntly I would raise my middle finger to them and tell them to sit on it.

  From my point of view to participate in a JC or to DA yourself is to acknowledge that you still buy into their system. From a family and freinds point of view the end result will still be the same. They will still shun you whether it be through fear of the consequences if they don't; or that they actually believe that "keeping the congregation clean bull."

  I would say on balance however, were I forced into it that to DA oneself means YOU took the decision not them. My gut instinct however is that when you realise they have no real authority over you then to even play their silly games is to still give some kind of sanction to their authority. Like saying to them: "I acknowledge that you have the right to treat me like this." It's your life not theirs. They will do whatever they decide to do anyway, being brain dead zombies following Watchtower instructions.

  DF'd or DA'd; different road to the same place. Don' give them the leverage, just walk in the opposite direction.

  Regards

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  3

  CofC in pounds sterling please

  by ballistic in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  simon - why does the link to amazon automatically default to the .com with dollars.

  i just went to purchase it and found the price in dollars so had to load it up manually which i suspect doesnt give you any credit (am i right)?

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  Number 6

  Ballistic

  It is because Simon's link is to Amazon.com

  If you go to Amazon.co.uk you will find CoC for £11.77 (inc p&p) where I ordered it from

  Regards

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